Matt, regarding di Santo and Dunne, I thought that was a pretty difficult one to give. On the one hand the ball has travelled almost no distance and he couldn’t exactly move his hands out of the way, but on the other hand you could argue his hands shouldn’t have been up that high in the first place. There are arguments both ways and if it hadn’t been given there would’ve been questions asked just as there are since it was given. As for dangerous play, yeah, that’s another element that could be argued. I think di Santo is entitled to go for the overhead kick as he clearly controlled the ball with that in mind and Dunne is moving towards him rather than the other way round. However, you can’t really say there’s a huge amount of bias involved as it there are definitely arguments for an against giving it rather than it being a clearly terribly decision. Don’t forget the ref had previously sent off Grella so it’s not like he was favouring Blackburn in any way.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-489051/Clattenburg-given-time-poor-officiating-following-Merseyside-derby-fiasco.html

Mark Clatternburg given a one match ban for poor performance after sending off 2 Everton players and giving 2 penalties to Liverpool in Merseyside derby

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article5084632.ece

I particularly like the quote about how Liverpool’s late penalty against Atletico “proved to be a perpetuation of two Merseyside myths: the dubious late penalty at the Kop End….”

I think you will find that most of the country think the same about your lot. If Stevie G ever gos to ground… all he has to do is look at a ref to get a free-kick or penalty.

You also mention the Villa game this year, when Villa were given a “dodgy penalty”. I think it was possibly THE most clear cut, stone-wall penalty ive ever seen. Even a one-eyed ref in front of the Kop had to give the decision…. but i suppose that you failed to see the incident in this light as the foul was committed by Stevie G. God! Even Rafa admitted it was a blatant penalty… so, in light of this, i have to ignore your ramblings and “evidence” of United bias.

Ps. You also fail to mention the Cantona ban, the Ferdinand ban etc…. examples of when decisions went against United.

Can you imagine the uproar from these boards if Man Utd had been awarded the same penalty with 3mins of the game to go with a match tied at 1-1? Imagine the media spotlight!!! Imagine the debate!!! I guess noone really cares when a controversial decision happens outside the top 4 tho!!!

Or is it that Di Santo actually still plays for Chelsea?? Hence the bias??

Great work Patrick for raising such debate! Well done to all involved.

Patrick, so what did u make of the Cech sending off then?

Keep it up

Dexy

I often wonder how well Ferguson’s United would do without this assistance as I mentioned above (to get the answer look at the years 1987 – 1992 in the Fergie reign at OT – they weren’t that impressive no?) and I think the answer is they’d be nothing LIKE as good as they are seen to be now but since they rely on such decisions so much – it will be a cold day in hell before THEY stop them happening and no-one else has the guts to take them on enough to stop it. I think that makes them little more than cowards and they know it – why else would they be so defensive whenever tackled about it? (Look at Fergies reaction to Rafa’s rant if you don’t believe me – he didn’t know WHAT to say and then A:) denied it and B:) TRIED (and failed miserably) to mock Rafa’ – He ended up looking the pathetic old man he can be now at times in the process; Still one day, there WILL be a reckoning for United, when Fergies goes – god will they have trouble then because then they WILL be exposed for what they are and when they are, you can kiss goodbye to United’s artificially assisted and manufactured so called ‘dominance’ of the game – it will be gone within a heartbeat – just like Fergie and his influence – At present, it’s clear that the sooner that day comes, the better for English football as a whole and it really CAN’T come quick enough can it?…………………

Then there’s the most blatant of the lot by a loooong shot – Tiago’s CLEAR handball at the Kop end of Anfield on January 1st 2005 when Chelsea were SLAUGHTERED, we could not score, said hand ball happened, Riley put his whistle to his lips for a pen’ and? Removed it – refused to explain why and Chelsea went on to win 0 – 1 with a deflected shot in a bigger heist than the Great Train Robbery (bet they didn’t enjoy being on the end of Lil’ Luis’ ‘ghost’ goal in the Champions League Semi Final that year though later did they? Revenge WAS sweet) I’ve ALWAYS thought there was something VERY dodgy about that decision in particular though above all others I’ll mention here – it was just TO blatant a pen’ to ignore – but Riley did – Why? And why have Liverpool had NO league penalties at the Bridge since 2001? Despite several VERY good calls and yet Chelsea have had TWO at Anfield including one for a pathetic dive I wonder?; Re United though, Surely if the games THAT biased there would have been NO added time to stop the media darlings being humiliated in March although A:) They deserved it and B:) the English game NEEDED something like that to happen, to show it can.

However, I remember back in the 70′s and 80′s (and it’ll probably happen again soon if our attack takes us where it might this season) where we won everything and? We received exactly the same complaints and even suggestions that we should start whole seasons with points handicaps due to biased referees who stopped anyone else winning ever. What was ignored there though and is ignored here is the fact that the Top sides (and whoever becomes champions and it WON’T always be United – their empire WILL collapse just as ours did – Who will replace Fergie?) always spend so much time in their foes penalty area and cause such chaos amongst their defences whilst attacking and have so much of the ball that A:) decisions against them are a surprise purely because it means the other side have managed to attack them/get the ball – same as defeats for them and B:) The other side are worn down so much that they make mistakes and thus penalties/cards etc inevitable – it’s called a pressing game and the champions of England have on and off used it for at least the last 4 decades or so in one form or another – it just means penning the other side into their own half through either physical pressing, ball possession or both and then wearing them down until they concede – unfortunately for those who hate them – the Top 4 are by far the best English exponents of this art – hence the alleged bias (although given what happened at Wigan yesterday to Chelsea it CAN be turned back on them by a good manager/tactician like Martinez)

Although refs clearly ARE afraid of the Big 4 and their influence etc – They CAN and DO rule against them as well – as shown when Chelsea conceded a penalty yesterday? When Liverpool got red cards AGAINST United in 2 games last year AND a penalty at Old Trafford and when Rooney and Scholes were both sent off against Fulham last term, United conceded a penalty and lost 2 – 0 (Murphy!! Again – His first Home goal against them actually, the other 3 winners were all at Old Trafford). On some other notes Dexylongshot I don’t think even Fergie would be so stupid as to physically attack a spectator or someone who annoyed him – what if they hit back? And ever since being attacked by a tramp a few years back on the train I think some of Fergie’s temper and fire has died down a little for some reason; Giulio di Sagrata, there WAS a money sharing arrangement in the English top league once…….for over a hundred years – it was called gate sharing whereby visiting sides took at least half of the money earned on the gates by the Home teams during matches in an equal split – The gradual scaling down and then demise of that arrangement since 1985 and the absolute determination of the big sides in England to hoard any and ALL mega earnings from football for themselves is what’s led to the current ridiculous imbalance (and yes it IS ridiculous in my view, despite me being on the right side of the Top 4 divide in terms of how well LFC do).

Dan Church, Wenger, Benitez et al DO have grievance lists of their own – particularly our own Rafa’ and ever since his so called ‘rant’ last season (which was no different than an absolute beauty from Fergie back in 1988 when he moaned about being done by referees at Anfield and thus started his own prolonged campaign of intimidation and that’s what it is – designed entirely to ensure that refs work to his and Uniteds advantage repeatedly when needed) I think we’ve started to get the rub of the green from a LOT of decisions and refs have treated us a LOT fairer than they used to so maybe shouting ala Fergie DOES work – I just think the FA don’t have the guts to have a public battle with a/the big club(s) over such influence as A:) it’s to much like hard work and B:) said clubs provide the bulk of the England team and thus could make life VERY difficult for the FA if they so wished.

Anyway, I think that the Big 4 DO benefit from such decisions partly due to attacking non-stop in games and partly due to influencing/shouting at ref’s (and I’m not going to apologise as a LFC fan because I’ve seen FAR to many marginal decisions go against us and blatant ones against United so its about time we fought fire with fire by replying in kind) I think that the reason United do get so much more (at present NOT forever) is because they’ve done it for longer although I do think Liverpool will catch up with them in that respect soon as WE once had the reputation of biggest ref influencers in England and the way our managers moaned about decisions recently, I think we might be getting said rep’ and the benefits it brings back again so I’ll watch for more such decisions in coming games. Chelsea and Arsenal aren’t far behind LFC and Man United either in terms of benefitting from refereeing largesse (look at the ridiculous way NO decisions went against Chelsea at the Bridge for 4 years almost so helping them establish that ridiculous record of theirs) so yes there IS a clear bias of sorts.

Clearly, United RELY on these decisions far more than other teams – look how inept they can be often in Europe where teams don’t give the ball back easily and they don’t benefit from cheap corners, pens or free kicks from friendly ref’s – the same is true in some big 4 clashes and WHEN that happens, they look quite an ordinary side – not great at all – In fact I’d go as far as saying they often RELY on such decisions to help win titles. I actually think it’s not so much the penalties they get as the extra time, cheap corners and incorrect free kicks to help build up pressure on ‘park the bus’ defences that helps them win titles as such teams invariably A:) can’t stand sustained periods of such pressure and B:) can’t attack United in turn like Top 4/European sides can;

Anyway, I’ll conclude by saying Basically – The main way to win the English league is to beat ALL (or as many as you can) of the smaller sides home and away whilst getting what you can from clashes with your contemporaries – look at United whose ‘Big 4′ clashes record last season (18 points possible – I think they got what? 5 to Liverpool’s 14) was abysmal but there record against the other sides (from which 95 or so points is available thus negating the need to batter the Top 4 regularly) was almost immaculate – hence they won the title by a one win and a draw margin of four points I think from us – I think Rafa’s learnt his lesson in that this year though as this season; like Fergie, he’s started pressing for everything he can get against the smaller sides and like Fergie he’s ensured we attack them from the start home and away as they can’t cope most of the time – if he carries on like this and we carry on vaporising such sides as we have Burnley, Stoke and especially Hull yesterday – I think THIS time, our Big 4 clashes record won’t matter so much – I DO think the media don’t like Rafa’ though as before last year ALL they did was moan about his record v the Top 4 and then? When we topped THAT table by a distance they harped on about how ‘smaller’ sides had cost us the title by stifling us for draws, we can’t win………..

Finally, regarding United, I wonder where they’d have been since 1993 IF they didn’t get 8 minutes of added on time against Sheffield Wednesday to start off the REAL list of decisions that have affected titles in their favour (and it was NOT in 1994) – that was just the tip of the iceberg as far as WE were concerned against them- the next season LFC were given a penalty at Old Trafford and then denied it by the ref’ and linesman before it was taking, United were given a joke of a penalty in Cantona’s comeback game (after the karate kick) in 1995 and an IDENTICAL penalty was refused Liverpool at Anfield by Graham Poll in 2003 (when Pongolle was FLATTENED by Ferdinand AND Howard the United keeper – Also there have been non-existent free kicks by them to beat us 1 – 0 when they should have lost (Anfield March 2007 where we battered them and Old Trafford January 2006 when we dominated but they won both with goals from Ferdinand and O’Shea I believe) and cheap/wrong corners AND free kicks given to them as well (as they were in September 2004 with Silvestre scoring from both) and to top it all off – Mike Rileys finest hour when in April 2003 he sent off Sami Hyppia for his first tackle at Old Trafford and gave United TWO penalties to help win 4 – 0 as well as Steve Bennett’s party piece when he sent off Mascherano for asking ”what’s happening/what’s wrong” at Old Trafford in a display Joe Stalin would have been proud of in March 2008.

When you add the joke of a dive for a penalty v Bolton by Ronaldo and the even more ridiculous penalty they ‘earnt’ against Spurs last season, Wes Brown being allowed to virtually knock out Blackburn’s keeper while scoring at Ewood Park but the goal standing, the apparently deliberate decision by the linesman to disallow Mendes shot from the halfway line at Old Trafford in January 2005 AND Rooney’s cheating dive to end Arsenal’s unbeaten run in October 2004 as well as his apparent invulnerability to being sent off or cautioned for swearing in refs faces then it’s clear that while there IS indeed a bias to big clubs from refs in the English league – There’s only one club that NEED it to be systematic like a crutch – else they’d be exposed for what they are (re their Liverpool and Barcelona matches last season) which is a flat track bully who can be harried into mistakes as much as any other team. We couldn’t POSSIBLY have that with Fergie on the touchline for them though could we?………………………………..