Class? Manchester City show Manchester United how it’s done

by Paul Connolly

Wednesday, May 18th, 2011
 

Over the last few years, since the takeover of the club, Manchester City fans have had to endure taunts of ‘lacking class and history.’ The second taunt is beyond laughable, especially as it generally came from Spurs fans, who support a club that has won precisely the same number of league titles as City – two.

In any case, history can not be defined merely by trophies won. Who can honestly say that clubs such as Fulham, the oldest club in London lest we forget, have no history simply because they have not won a trophy? This argument is specious and patronising.

But class? That’s harder to quantify. However, class was what was on display on Saturday at the FA Cup Final between Manchester City and Stoke City and during Tuesday’s league game between the two sides at Eastlands. At Wembley there was mutual respect – in contrast to the aftermath of City’s semi-final against Manchester United there were no roving groups of losing fans targeting young and elderly Manchester City fans after the game.

And prior to the match on Tuesday, Manchester City announced they would not be parading the FA Cup in deference to Stoke City’s feelings. It was a magnanimous gesture and one mirrored before and after the game by City fans not only applauding Stoke City’s travelling contingent but their team too. There was no rubbing Stoke’s fans noses in the dirt of defeat.

Contrast this with Manchester United’s fans obsession with THAT banner, numbering the years Manchester City went without a trophy. Now they have to remove it, there are rumours that it will be replaced with one counting the years since City last won the league. Such class. And United fans have the nerve to call City fans bitter.

City fans, however, couldn’t give a hoot. Put it up, lads – because it certainly won’t be long before you’ll be taking it down again. Class? United wouldn’t recognise it if it bit Fergie on his big, bulbous red nose.

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  • red and proud

    They say that an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of typewriters will eventually create the complete works of Shakespeare. I guess in your case, an infinite amount of money buying an infinite number of players will eventually lead to a top, top team. Until then, I’ll continue to celebrate the continuing success of the red half of Manchester. You lot should continue eating your bananas.

  • Paul Connolly

    I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Nothing bittersweet about the cup win in our house, I can tell you.
    As for the FFP, all good points, but I think you’re forgetting that City are also developing a HUGE complex around the stadium (as well as improving the transport infrastructure of the local area), a complex that is expected to generate a LOT of extra revenue. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

  • I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Fair comment Paul, but really do you think that what the Sheik is doing regarding development is that much different than other ambitious clubs are doing or in fairness have already done that alone is going to get you to the level where you need to be at, your wage bill alone is frightening and is at a level that only the likes of Madrid & co can justify within their annual t/o, yes there are many ways to skin a cat but this is one hell of a pussy you have on your hands!

  • Rhysiemagic.com

    Genius Hunter – unless you have someone on the inside at MCFC and FULLY understand the plans the club have to increase turnover alot more than 3 or 4 fold, you might aswell pop your patronising posts on another forum. Your cousins found it bitter sweet? Dont talk tosh – unsurprisingly your family loyalty went out the window when you needed to use the information to patronise a blue – wrong on so many level.nuff said. end of chat on this one – its really boring me now – just get over it – lose the banner and lets move on to something more taxing.

  • I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Sorry you found the posts patronising they weren’t meant to be, but again just like the banner nothing but the truth. I was under the impression that only the boring get bored or is it just a guise to hide the fact that you’re c**t who finds the truth hard to live with so lets move on is the easy solution? I have no idea what City have in mind for world domination but what I do understand is business and no matter what magical plans city have you need customers (in what ever form) to spend money to bring in revenue and City just do not have the customer base at present to achieve it, nothing patronising about it just plain and simple business logic!

  • Rhysiemagic.com

    that told me – wont even dignify it with a specific subject matter response to someone using such abhorrent and abusive language.disgusting.

  • Paul Connolly

    I think I’ve Found you a Genius
    1) Use of abusive language is to be avoided on here please.
    2) “I have no idea what City have in mind for world domination.”

    That says it all really. Now, off you jolly well toddle.

  • Jay

    YAWN.

  • frank

    could someone please remind me just how much money the current manchester united squad cost

  • Shuggie

    Red and Proud,

    Infinite amount of money? Now unless I’m mistaken Utd finished their game at Blackburn with 3 players on the field who costed £30 mill or more to purchase.

    City finished played the cup final with all players costing less than 30 million. Now I’m not arguing City haven’t gained success through financial muscle but its incredibly diingenuous for a Utd fan to argue it diminishes the achievement when they are doing it themselves.

  • http://t Stav Petrou

    Erm lets have a little look my boring clueless bitter rag friend.Berbatov £30 million,Shrek £30 million,Nani £18 million ,Carrick £15 million,Anderson £18 million,Daffy £30 million ,Valencia £12million.Do you want me to name some of the £30 million Veron type flops too?

  • I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Fair play Paul bad language just isn’t cricket, I just dont know what came over me, maybe it was the best word I could come up with in response to such a lame reply.

    No seriously boys if you feel there is no place for everyday words then fair play and I bow my head in shame but please don’t take the moral high ground because as they say “One cannot polish a turd”. Was that eloquent enough for you?

  • Jay

    It’s somewhat strange criticizing Uniteds lack of class only to go on for the rest of your article being classless yourself.

    The obsession thing is even weirder though.

    Biggest period in your clubs recent history and your last 2 articles have heavily featured United.

    This confused nature you are displaying is worrying and perhaps a sign of old age? Senility?

  • Jem

    All the “top” teams can’t lecture us about buying success as they have done and continue to do the same. Reason City have paid more is 1: because we had a lot of catching up to do and 2: we had to pay over the odds to attract top players to an unknown (outside britain & Ireland) club who did not play C.L. football. Its bleedin obvious. in 2 or 3 years we will not need to spend in such a condensed fashion.
    To the mid table to lower table clubs you can’t lecture either. I ask 1 question to you. Would you turn down the arabs billions to keep your high morals and remain in relation misery every year? I don’t think so. Remember, City fans stood by their club through absolute torture, no billions, no trophies, being the butt of everyones jokes. To say City has no class or history is absolute bull. People have short memories. We are entitled to our time at the top just as any other club anywhere in the country is. Unfortunitely football is now all about money, if you haven’t got it you get left out in the cold.

  • Jem

    “Relegation” Sorry for typos

  • mancunian

    i think they should replace it with a 37 years banner. Longest period a team from Manchester has gone without a trophy. Yes for man united fans that is you – you did have a history before 1992 – look it up 🙂

  • mancunian

    The other interesting thing about the banner is, it is owned by a scouse united fan who used to suppert everton – typical man yoo fans. Choose to support the ealready successful and think it makes you special.

  • Nijinski

    Laughable … although there are an infinite number of monkeys turning up to watch your shower at the swamp every week. Foreign monkeys generally, not mancunian monkeys. LMAO

    Anyway, perhaps we should put up our own banner at Eastlands indicating the ever increasing debt being placed upon your own team by your own very generous benefactors (surely Blues in disguise) on a weekly basis. Mind you, we’d need a bloody big place to hang that one wouldn’t we.

    Continue to be bitter Red and Proud, it makes days like Saturday all the sweeter 😉

  • Matt Hall-Naylor

    RED & PROUD –

    Banana’s!!!!!!, well, I suspect the only ingenious object Man Utd fans have thought of waving would be a prawn sandwiche. We, as MCFC fans may have been trudging behind a red trail when it comes to trophies and league titles, but at least the majority of CITY fans have a sense of humour and brought a light-heartened and fun approach to supporting our team through thick and thin.

    One element of your post also suggests we bought our FA Cup and place in the league. Now, I am not denying there is an element of truth in this but surely your not so naive as to not recognise you have done exactly the same…..Rodney, Ferdinand, Nani, Hernandez, Van der Sar, Carrick et al were hardly home grown. This list is no where near exhaustive!!!!!!!!

    In addition, in monetary terms you paid as much for Ferdinand as we did for our highest signing, albeit a few years earlier, suggesting he was extremely overpriced compared with our recent signings.

    I suggest that a high percentage of Man Utd fans should stick to concentrating on what is happening on your side of town as your continued affection for the Blue half appears to be gathering more and more pace………which to me, points to the fact that the bitterness is not in actual fact blue in colour, more so RED.

  • Youwot

    Did my eyes just deceive me or did I read the way that the Sheiks will get around FFP would be to develop the stadium and surroundings?!?!
    1. What is the point of increasing a stadium you cannot fill
    2. Maybe I missed something but the stadium is on an athletics and multisport complex already.
    3. I’m sure people will flock to a casino/hotel in the roughest part of Manchester – NOT
    What is most likely is the Sheik himself will concoct some creative accounting and develop Middle East commercial deals to channel money through the club- which is far from legit!

  • http://bluemoon kev sharx

    if anyone checks out the facts and truth on wikipedia ‘ manchester city’ all answers are certainly on there, in the supporters part if true 900,000 fans in the uk and 2 million world wide now thats growing by the minute merchandisers dream !

  • Russ the blue

    I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    You say that deep down most of us would have liked to achieve our success differently. I assume you mean without a huge input of cash? You are right I would much prefer all our players were home grown and born within the City boundires of Manchester preferably with parents who were born in Manchester as well. That may have been possible 100 years ago but not any more. The truth is these days if a lesser club develops a good player, SWP for example a richer club buys him and puts him on the bench. There is no way to grow now other than a rich benfactor. Lesser clubs are just becoming extras in the top four show.

    If we are talking about cash I wonder if you really know your own clubs recent history? Let me refresh your memory.

    In 1989 Michael Knighton made a bid of 20 million to buy United, a lot of money then but eventually the bid fell apart as his backers dropped out as they did not feel United was worth 20 million so I think we can safely say United were not worth 20 million

    In 1992 the Premiere League was formed to take advantage of a very lucrative TV deal, United just happened to be the best club at the time and the money rolled in.

    1992 also saw the establishment of the Champions League formed to take advantage of a very lucrative TV deals, United just happened to be the best club at the time and the money rolled in.

    1995 No surprise then when in United smashed the British record transfer fee signing Andy Cole for 7 million or when they did it again in 2001 and 2002. United have broken the transfer record more than any other club

    Much of this TV money became available because of the arrival of BskyB in 1990. Sky beamed live football all over the UK and the world to a massive new market The premier league was a huge success and United who just happened to be the best club at the time used that money to buy more success when they might otherwise have fallen from grace.

    Sky were aware that they had effectively created the modern day United and the cash cow it had become with their money, they wanted it so they bid 680 million for United, it was accepted but the deal was blocked by the monopolies commission.

    A club not worth 20 million growing to one worth 680 million in the space of 10 ( 7? ) years!! It would never have happened without the TV money and exposure. City may now have Sheikh Mansour but United have had Sheikh Murdoch

    How sick must Liverpool be? If only the Prem, Champs league and Sky had come along 10 years earlier, how big would they be now? Much bigger than United I would bet.

    So what do you say? Would you like to have won all United did without Sheikh Murdoch? Have you really been happy winning things knowing that a large part of the reason you have was because no one else had your spending power?

    My own view is United were lucky, right place right time and a huge club was born. City have been lucky (Sheikh Mansour looked at a number of clubs before choosing City) right place right time and we may be witnessing the birth of another huge club.

    All I am saying is don’t kid yourself United generated all that money, Sky did it for you and don’t kid yourself you have not bought success over the years. Yes Fergie is a great manager and had to pull it all together but it helps if you can smash the Bristish transfer record buying a flop like Veron for 28 million, shrug your shoulders and break the transfer record again the following year spending 29 million on Rio figures most clubs can only dream about

    I will read the FFP rules later, what I do know is FFP rules cannot break the law. What happens if City want to sign Messi on a million quid a week? The FFP rules say we cannot and he goes to the European Court claiming restraint of trade or his human rights are being broken? My view is he will win. I am sure Jimmy Hill and Marc Bosman would agree.

    There will be many other points of law the FFP rules can be challeneged on which is why any breaches will be brushed under the carpet. Will UEFA want to compensate City or some other club 40 million for banning is from Europe?

    What about Barca, they had to borow 120 million last year just to pay their players wages, this is only going to get worse as the tax rate on foreign players is going up from 23% to 43% so the player will demand higher wages will Barca be banned from Europe? Will Real Madrid pass FFP rules? (Remember when they sold their training ground to the council for 447 million Euros)

    Can it be right that clubs like Real Madrid, Barca and United run with 100s of million debt yet City who owe nothing be banned from Europe? I feel another court case coming on that UEFA cannot afford to loose

    Time will tell

    Not sure what you mean about the way City fans have behaved during your successful years. There are idiots “supporting” every club and you have your fair share, take a look at them whilst you are looking at ours. At the semi’s I saw around ten United fans in their twentys knock a City fan in his late 50s to the ground and give him a good kicking and the car park attendant told me he saw a United fan stick a broken bottle in the side of a City fans neck. I am sure you don’t associate yourself with these United fans

  • Captain Fergie on the SS Debtchester

    “I’m sure people will flock to a casino/hotel in the roughest part of Manchester – NOT”

    Apart from the rest of your laughable comments this one beats the bunch and proves you know absolutely zilch about Manchester or its environs (eg Trafford).

    If you ever get to the Swamp other via a TV channel, look across the Manchester Ship Canal and behold the wonder that is Salford the land that time forgot (because time had its watch nicked just as it put its hand out to turn right at Langworthy Road).

    PS On the subject of class see Shrek has been oozing it again, threatening to put a twitter poster to sleep and wanting a meet at the training ground and then claiming it was only banter (note to Shrek there are two t’s in batter).

  • Captain Fergie on the SS Debtchester

    PPS I see that the goalkeeper, United are close to signing, Maarten Stekelenberg, managed to drop the Dutch Eredivisie trophy from the bus parading it.

    Looks like he is about to continue that great tradition of United keepers. What with Shrek, Camel face and scary Neville there is never a dull moment at that comedy store aka the Everglades.

  • Paul Connolly

    Morning Jay!
    How are the Dungeons and Dragons going? What’s your top score on COD4? Sooo exciting that revision’s nearly over, eh? You’ll be able to spend so much more time with your frien…..er, computer.

  • Captain Fergie on the SS Debtchester

    Jay

    I know your lot are light on imagination and original ideas, you know like taking Salford RLFC’s nickname and applying it to yourselves and using the coat of arms of Manchester when you are only near neighbours but now you are tryng to claim that its City fans who are obsessing ovevr United.

    You only have to read the comments page of the MUEN to see the fascination the more intellectually challenged of your fans have for everything City. I am not saying you dint have some decent fans but lets be fair they are in a very small minority, having been pushed to one side, as your Club took the Sky dollar and turned itself into a corporation rather than a commuinity based football club.

    The arrogance of your ilk in continually asserting that only United have a right to win anything further confirms why your Club is so hated. Its not about success as another deluded rag claimed. People didnt begrudge Liverpool their amazing run of success, or Arsenal or Chelsea too.

    Your lot could learn a lot from the dignified way in which Stoke fans and their manager behaved. Now thats class.

    Not threatening Rooneys life because he came up with an honest appraisal of your Club. and suggested he would be better off at another club. Contrast that with the way City and their fans have dealt with the Tevez affair. Almost every comment I have read tends to echo, that whilst we want him to stay, if he goes we wish him well and thank him for his tremendous contribution to the cause.

    Thats real class from fans who really care for their Club, far more than how many trophies they are able to claim, as if it somehow makes them superior beings.

    For United fans they use the Clubs success as a persona, behind which they hide their own very shallow lives, lack of principles and sense of self worth. Thats why you are so obsessed with City and so keen to belittle and besmirch the Club and its fans because without the mighty ManU myth people see you for what you really are.

  • Captain Fergie on the SS Debtchester

    PS

    Oh and Jay in case you hadnt realised this is a City fans site and yet you managed to find your way here, before claiming its City fans who are obsessed about your Club. You really dont think things through very well , do you?

  • It’s Grim Oop North

    Russ the Blue and Captain Fergie on the SS Debtchester, well put indeed!

    Sadly most of these dimwit United fans won’t take any notice of the many valid points you made, probably because they aren’t actually from Manchester, and can’t envisage how the growth of East Manchester is great for Manchester and great for MCFC, never mind understanding the histories of City and United.

    Funny how the loudest United fans (on the web) happen to live hundreds (or thousands) of miles from OT, it’s plain to see United compensate for something lacking in their own lives – most unhealthy.

    I don’t know any United fans who carry on like these clowns, but then I’m from Manchester, where we have to live and work alongside each other.

  • bluemoonasm

    red and proud
    Buying success…don’t make me laugh. Bacon face started the trend…remember Veron? We’ve just done it over a shorter period of time. If the Beverley Hillbillies had a pot to p**s in you’d be looking to replace a number of your ageing squad this Summer.Presumably next years banner in K stand will reflect how long it is since we’ve won the league and the one in 2013 will ask when we last won a European Cup. WTF are you muppets going to put up in 2014?? I still can’t believe how much time you Rags spend talking and writing about little old Citeh !!

  • balls deep

    Well said Captain Fergie etc. Its a sad reflection on United fans; I know some decent ones to be fair but they tend to be of my ilk and their knuckles swing considerably above ground level. Considering how successful United have been recently you would think that they wouldnt care as much as they clearly do…. i think its a brainwashing exercise that they all signed up to when they became reds – they have lost all objectivity, all rational argument and any idea how to debate and discuss intelligently. Or is it the fact that they are running scared and can see the landscape before them (maybe i am giving the majority of them too much credit here…..)? As always, the club, fans and their worldwide following just dont like it up em’! As for some of the language and aggression coming from so called ‘business people’ I am absolutely amazed that they can read it back and feel proud. Oh and some of the grammar and spelling is terrible – always did have better schools up North. Come on you blues! Toodaloo

  • I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Russ

    I’d love to respond to all your comments in detail but some of them I just don’t understand what on earth they have to do with me, but I’ll try my best!

    There’s no need to type a short dialogue of United’s financial history/fortunes since the late eighties as I’m fully aware and knowledgeable in my own clubs past (and although your entitled to your opinion on how and what evolved from that period it is debatable and maybe one for another day) but I do find it interesting that you feel the need to raise it as that throws me back to my original post and the point I was attempting to make. To remind you of this my post related to the hypocrisy surrounding not just city fans but most fans in general. So you’ve chose to comment on how united were lucky, in the right place at the right time that maybe so but in saying that you are basically saying United didn’t achieve what they have achieved by their own merit, sound familiar to very recent and present baiting by other fans aimed at city by any chance? As I have said previously, I have no issue with city or any club spending what they feel necessary to acquire success as gone are the days of 11 local lads living the dream as you rightly stated but don’t start flapping when other fans throw crap at you on how your club has achieved success, not because their right in what they are saying but because of the contradictions verging on hypocrisy.

    With regards to the FFP, I appreciate your comments but I think it’s fair to say you are posing scenarios without truly being informed on the matter. The rules are in, they have been agreed by the clubs so challenges from this day forward will be a bit futile, UEFA’s legal eagles have been over it with a fine toothed comb, now that doesn’t mean it isn’t open to challenges but the Messi point you made (although I’m sure a tongue in cheek comment by yourself) wouldn’t stand a chance of breaching human rights or especially restraint of trade as it million pound a week wouldn’t be comparable and again wouldn’t be affordable through the income of the club, but again read the FFP.

  • balls deep

    I think ive found you a genius

    Didnt you get relegated from this forum after your foul, abusive and aggressive behaviour? Maybe its best you found another forum to bleat your inane drivel? Honestly its impossible to take you seriously after such poor behaviour. It probably makes more sense buddy. Come on you know I’m right so just do one and we’ll see you at the Charity Shield (probably a short journey for you) or will it be “I cant get a ticket….”. Have a good un’, jog on numpty.

  • Russ the blue

    I think I’ve Found you a Genius

    Sorry if you feel your comments have been sucked up by me and mixed up with other coments here by others perhaps they have.

    What did my coments have to do with you?

    Well the one about Uniteds fortunes relates to you saying that many City fans wished they had won the FA cup another way. I just reminded you (and anyone else reading this who may not know, to put it in context) that United had won many of their trophies in part at least as a result of a large amount of cash. I did give Fergie credit so I am not saying there was no merit but we also know if he had been in charge at Stockport for the last 30 years he would have won nothing. Having loads of cash makes a big difference as hopefully City are discovering.

    I don’t flap when other clubs say we have achieved what we have because we have lots of money. That would be fair comment from a Stoke fan but not from a Chelsea fan and not from a United fan as you said that would be hypocrisy from Chelsea and United fans especially United fans many of who are not as well informed as you say you are about United’s financial history/fortunes since the late eighties. Anyone 25 and under does not remember life without Sky TV and football coveraged being limited to 30 minutes of match of the day late on a Saturday night.

    I think the point you are missing regarding the FFP is that their rules do not overide the law. True if no one challenges the rules they could stand for many years but my Messi point is very valid.

    It is irrelevant if City can generate enough money to pay him per FFP rules. If the owners want to pay him and EUFA say we cannot then its my opinion several laws are being broken and if challenged in court the FPP rules will be found illegal. I used Messi to highlight a point but it does not need to be him. I could be an apprentice on 20,000 a year or I suppose even the guy who cleans the toilets who we have to make redundant to help met Messi’s wages

    Laws relating to restraint of trade and human rights are not just there for poor people. Not that I think any court cases will happen. EUFA will just fudge things.

    But lets say I am wrong. As far as I know Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea and Liverpool are failing the FFP rules. With Liverpools and Uniteds history and United’s TV draw are EUFA really going to ban either of these clubs and do you think Chelsea or City will just accept a ban or will they drag EUFA through the courts no expense spared?

    And lets say all four clubs are banned, I doubt spurs will meet the FFP rules, will Everton? we are starting to scrape the barrel now, a Champs league with Stoke and Bolton in it? Not much TV draw there around the world. EUFA will be cutting their own throats.

    Of coarse if Madrid and Barca get banned as well there’s not much of the Champions league left but there is the makings of a break away league.

    What a hollow victory for the winners of the champ league if the big boys are not there. Imagine Arsenal winning it. “they only did it because United Chelsea and Barca were not there

    No the more I think about it the less FFP rules worry me.

    Anyway, its nice to debate with a united fan who is balanced and not an idiot, perhasp someone should start a website for sensible fans of City and United

  • Jay

    Brilliant Paul.

    I bet it took all those synapses firing in unison to come up with that :-/.

    You bored of writing pretentious shit about music and films? Maybe you should try this sports journalism lark as a career. Tribalfootball football are always hiring people with abso-fucking-lutely no clue about football. Chance it, you never know, you just might get to live the dream.

    Mr Bloggerman.

  • Jay

    Dorchester

    No it isn’t you retard. Its called DexysDen and it’s a blog site affiliated to no club. Being on the website i would have figured even you, knuckle dragging buffoon, could’ve worked that out.

    Incidentally, when the writer includes Manchester United in his “article” it’s just as reasonable for United fans to comment on as it is for you or any other City fan to do so.

    Or are you suggesting that ONLY City fans can comment on “article” that’s as much about United as City.

    Do one, moron.

  • russ the nlue

    Jay

    I suspect Dorchester was wondering why you were even on a City website to know that United was being talked about?

  • balls deep

    Jay you really are a knob arent you? I am trying to work out your age but your literacy skills dont match with the age I was thinking (5). Were you dropped on your head as a child?! Or did your boyfriend dump you or something? Take a chill pill kiddo

  • Jay

    Russ it’s not on a city site. It’s linked through newsnow.co.uk on the United feed.

    Being called Balls Deep and calling someone a “knob” meansyou don’t get to question my age or discuss literacy you pleb.

  • balls deep

    Jay
    Oh does it, and where’s the rule book on that? You have declared enough neanderthal behaviour and poor insight to justify anything from anybody accessing this forum you sad little cockney (probably). My pseudonym is just a little bit of fun you imbecile – something I suspect you have little of in your sad vacuous existence. Now do as I say and “do one” – but of course being the childish little man that you are I will of course leave you with the last word – which will remain unreplied.

  • Jay

    Yeah ok buddy.

    I’ll do exactly what you say. Right after i cure world hunger, fix the middle east and invent a time machine so i can go back and teach your parents the merits of contraception.

    Fuckwit.

  • http://www.ukfootballfinder.co.uk Mystical Mike

    I can’t see passed United for the league next season, if they sign Snider they might even win the Champions League, hate to admit it but its a fact

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